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Topic  |
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 17:23:38
Hi,I have read a couple of the Paxton posts in this forum and it looks like this is the way I want go to get some more power out of my engine. Where can I buy a classic Paxton? Are there any modifications I need to do to the engine? It’s a standard Hipo engine with arvinode exhaust. Edited by - toffe on 05/11/2010 17:26:52
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 18:31:42
there are several ebay sellers that sell vintage Paxtons. But the only source I would recommend is Craig Conley of Paradise Wheels in CA. conleyr107@sbcglobal.net He bought all the tooling & parts for the ball drive Paxton's from the Paxton Company. They only sells the gear drive style now.
I think he is charging $3000 for the complete GT-350 type Paxton kit. That doesn't include a carb. I would advise buying a carb from him, as it will be correctly set up. I am currently running a vintage Paxton in my GT-350. The motor has stock Hi-Po cam & high compression pistons. It all works fine, the only adjustment necessary was to change the total timing from 40 degrees to 33 degrees. You have to do a little expermenting with the timing to avoid detonation. I love the Paxton, and in my case, it was a necessity, as I had lost some acceleration with my 3.00:1 rear end gearing. I'd be happy to offer any advice, on or off the forum. Z. Ray
Edited by - zrayrichter on 05/11/2010 18:32:25
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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63Kcode
FanatiKal
TX, USA
225 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 11:58:38
I agree with buying one fro Craig, with the carb. That is what I did on my 66 and I love it!!!!!!!!!Larry
---------- http://www.legendaryfordmagazine.com/PDF/2004-05-63fairlane.pdf 63 K code Fairlane 65 A code 2+2 66 GT350 #2015
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6hypo5conv
Kontributor
FL
1150 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 17:55:08
Did any K code Mustangs-(Non-Shelbys) come with Paxtons? may be dealer installed?
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mcfly
Kommitted
NY, USA
84 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 18:55:13
I have also been toying with this idea. Even though my kar did not come with one they are period correct and I believe acceptable.What kind of HP gains are we talking about ? -mike-
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Mad4HiPos
LunatiK
WA, USA
843 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2010 : 11:01:57
quote:
Did any K code Mustangs-(Non-Shelbys) come with Paxtons? may be dealer installed?
There was a bronze 66 fastback (HiPo I think) I saw for many years at the Mustang Roundup in Bellevue, WA that had a Paxton and 66 GT350 quarter windows. I haven't seen the car there for at least 5 years but IIRC the owner had original dealer documentation for the installation. Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures so this is entirely anecdotal but I remember being very impressed with the car. Hopefully it shows up again.Dave
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 00:03:31
quote:
I have also been toying with this idea. Even though my kar did not come with one they are period correct and I believe acceptable.What kind of HP gains are we talking about ? -mike-
I am going to get around to the dyno one of these days as I'd like to know as well. However, my goal is to mothball the original engine & install a 331 w/ AFR heads & the vintage Paxton. That might be fun. Z
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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oscart
Kommitted
ON, Canada
88 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2010 : 08:39:09
Why settle for just one?http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PAXTON-TWIN-SHELBY-SUPERCHARGER-KIT-65-70-MUSTANG-NEW-/250250337558?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a44151d16
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 14:19:13
Just talked to Craig and he had the vintage Paxtons at the price mentioned here. He also recommended me a Holley 650 DP to further improve the performance. Can anyone give me an advice wherever I should buy the 650 or do the required mods to the original carb?
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 19:03:08
quote:
Just talked to Craig and he had the vintage Paxtons at the price mentioned here. He also recommended me a Holley 650 DP to further improve the performance. Can anyone give me an advice wherever I should buy the 650 or do the required mods to the original carb?
it saves a lot of grief to buy a carb from C. Conley already tested and ready to go. Another thing, if you have an original carb, it's worth over a grand as is. If you modify it to work well with a Paxton, just for starters that will require you to mill off the choke tower & there goes all the date codes, etc & the value will plummet to that of 10 lb door stop. Carbs with choke towers intact will fit under the Paxton enclosure, but they don't work nearly as well as a no-tower carb. I've tried it both ways, and am now using a Holley 650 DP that has no choke tower. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-0-82651/ It works fine, I also am using a (self-modified) marine spark arrester which serves as a air diffuser. It makes a big difference, and let me take out a lot of jetting & it improved responsiveness. http://www.cpperformance.com/p-14175-5-34-x-1-58-tall-flame-arrestor-aluminum.aspx Z. Ray
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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k code 65
FanatiKal
New Zealand
106 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 04:29:32
Z Ray , are you running the HiPo Fuel Pump still , was wondering if the HiPo Pump ( Rebuilt ) would be sufficient too run with the 650 dble pumper, i too am thinking of Buying a Paxton Package from Craig , craig did tell me you can run with the Std HiPo carb , didnt however mention anything about Choke Clearance Problems.Is that Link too The spark Arrestor correct , i couldnt open it up Some pics of the Paxton Set Up would be real nice too view . Thanks , Shane
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 09:53:42
Z Ray, did you buy your carb from Craig? From the quote I got from him it seems a bit pricy compared to summit.If you have any pictures of your setup that would be great. Either by mail or in this forum.
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 14:38:52
quote:
Z Ray , are you running the HiPo Fuel Pump still , was wondering if the HiPo Pump ( Rebuilt ) would be sufficient too run with the 650 dble pumper, i too am thinking of Buying a Paxton Package from Craig , craig did tell me you can run with the Std HiPo carb , didnt however mention anything about Choke Clearance Problems. Is that Link too The spark Arrestor correct , i couldnt open it up Some pics of the Paxton Set Up would be real nice too view . Thanks , Shane
I'm using a Carter fuel pump that C. Conley modified so it is "boost referenced", which is just pressing or threading a brass tube into the vent orifice so it can be connected by hose to Paxton outlet. If you have a legit Hi-Po fuel pump I wouldn't use it even if the capacity was sufficient. Any drilling or tapping into it is bound to diminish it's value. The choke towers clear OK, but carbs with them don't have as good of air flow as carbs not having the choke towers. Try this link: http://www.cpperformance.com/c-479-flame-arrestors.aspx?pagenum=1 the one I used is half way down the page: 5-3/4" x 1-5/8" Tall Flame Arrestor, Aluminum I'll take some photos today and post them. Z.
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 14:48:29
quote:
Z Ray, did you buy your carb from Craig? From the quote I got from him it seems a bit pricy compared to summit.If you have any pictures of your setup that would be great. Either by mail or in this forum.
I didn't get the carb from C. Conley, I bought a refurbished carb from Holley. They sell them on ebay. They are warranty returned carbs that are basically new. The price is usually a $100 dollars under Summit's price for a new one. I can't remember if it came with the Nitrophyl floats, or if I had to change them. But anyway, you can save a few dollars if you don't mind tearing into your carb to modify it for the Paxton application, and having to work on the jetting for a while. A cab from C. Conley will save you some time and aggrevation, that;s all. Will post somephotos soon. Z.
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2010 : 22:06:33
Photos: [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/Paxton%20and%20Fuel%20Lines%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0555.jpg] [/URL][URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/Paxton%20and%20Fuel%20Lines%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0561.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/Paxton%20and%20Fuel%20Lines%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0556.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/Paxton%20and%20Fuel%20Lines%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0558.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/Paxton%20and%20Fuel%20Lines%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0557.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/Paxton%20and%20Fuel%20Lines%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0562.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/Paxton%20and%20Fuel%20Lines%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0560.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/Paxton%20and%20Fuel%20Lines%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0563.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/Paxton%20and%20Fuel%20Lines%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0559.jpg] [/URL]
as you can see I removed most of the wire mesh from the spark arrestor as I wasn't getting sufficient airflow, leaving only one layer. Without the arrestor I was having intermittent flooding problems & erratic performance ( a/f ratios were erratic).
I can't really say how this was caused, all I know is a guy over on the SAAC forum swore by the use of a diffuser, and Paxton is recommending one be use with their new kits for carbed engines From a reseller's ad: "...... Miscellaneous Components: 8M011-001: Air diffuser. 5.75" diameter x 2.5" tall. Mounts on top of 4150 carburetor when installed in Vortech carburetor enclosure. This diffuser stabilizes the airflow entering the carburetor in "blow-through" applications which allows for smoother operation and improved idle when supercharged ....." and from Paxton's web site ".. if the Holley carburetor is used, an air diffuser (#8M011-001) is recommended.." I don't know how my diffuser compares to the one Holly/Vortech sells. Z.
Edited by - zrayrichter on 05/20/2010 08:26:07
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 09:06:21
Thanks for the pictures Z Ray.What extra instruments do you have? EGT and Fuelpressure? What brand are they? Where are you routing the hose that comes from the valve covers?
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 10:11:50
quote:
quote:
Z Ray, did you buy your carb from Craig? From the quote I got from him it seems a bit pricy compared to summit.If you have any pictures of your setup that would be great. Either by mail or in this forum.
I didn't get the carb from C. Conley, I bought a refurbished carb from Holley. They sell them on ebay. They are warranty returned carbs that are basically new. The price is usually a $100 dollars under Summit's price for a new one. I can't remember if it came with the Nitrophyl floats, or if I had to change them. But anyway, you can save a few dollars if you don't mind tearing into your carb to modify it for the Paxton application, and having to work on the jetting for a while. A carb from C. Conley will save you some time and aggrevation, that;s all. Will post somephotos soon. Z.
here is one of those ebay auctions for the carb. They usually apear every week or so, so bidding is low or none: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280509366301&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123 Z. Edited by - zrayrichter on 07/19/2010 21:23:55
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2010 : 12:58:03
quote:
Thanks for the pictures Z Ray.What extra instruments do you have? EGT and Fuelpressure? What brand are they? Where are you routing the hose that comes from the valve covers?
from left to right (at idle): Boost Pressure (none w/o a load), Fuel Pressure, A/F ratio, engine vacuum, oil pressure. first two gauges are vintage Paxton gauges, a/f gauge is AEM I think, last two are Auto Meter. the gizmo in the pcv plumbing is a device for catching & filtering out the breather oil before it gets sucked into the intake. http://conceptualpolymer.com/new_page_1.htm [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/PCV%20plumbing%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0567.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/PCV%20plumbing%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0566.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/PCV%20plumbing%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0564.jpg] [/URL] [URL=http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/zrayr/PCV%20plumbing%20May%202010/?action=view¤t=DSC_0565.jpg] [/URL] Z.
Edited by - zrayrichter on 05/20/2010 14:46:42
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 02:55:34
Thanks for everything Z Ray. I have just ordered the kit from Craig.Also I have sent you a PM
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66gtk
LunatiK
MN, USA
997 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 07:45:40
Z-Great photos. Thank you for sharing. That looks like a fun setup! Troy
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k code 65
FanatiKal
New Zealand
106 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 20:25:56
Hi Z Ray , thanks for info and pics , Getting back too the OE HiPo pump ,way back in 66 when Paxtons where fitted too some shelbys , do you know if the Fuel Pumps where changed at the time , i would like too stick with my Rebuilt Pump if possible as i Like the OE LookI was wondering how the Spark Arrestor got its name , When it Looks like a Aircleaner Element . Shane
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2010 : 22:17:52
quote:
".................I was wondering how the Spark Arrestor got its name , When it Looks like a Aircleaner Element .Shane
It differes from aircleaner element in that it's all metal mesh. I suppose a spark has a tough time mavigating thru all the layers of mesh. I think it has to pass some coast guard test to be certified. But for my purposes, one layer of mesh was plenty to diffuse the air flow. More than that was too restrictive. I'm experimenting with adding some holes in the top plate to get maximun air flow & still have some diffusing properties. If I ruin it, it only costs $ 40 to get another one. Z.
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2010 : 08:33:49
quote:
"................... do you know if the Fuel Pumps where changed at the time , i would like too stick with my Rebuilt Pump if possible as i Like the OE Look ............." Shane
AFAIK, the Hi-Po fuel pump was not modified & used. I have always believed the Paxton "kit" came with a Carter fuel pump that was already modified, You might contact C. Conley at the above email address, He's would know the history better than I do. Z. Edited by - zrayrichter on 05/22/2010 09:21:18
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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round2K
KRAZY!
BC, Canada
1519 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2010 : 11:10:36
This is a great topic and it would be terrfic if Craig would contribute to the thread.
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2010 : 23:37:07
never seen a post by him anywhere. He is totally accessable by phone or email though, and shares information freely. Z.
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2010 : 10:23:37
Hi,I have talked to Craig a couple of times now, and yes there is a fuelpump included in the kit. This is the image of the kit I got from Craig.
 Edited by - toffe on 05/23/2010 10:25:29
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2010 : 11:04:01
I wasn't very clear with my answer to the fuel pump question. I didn't mean to infer the the kits sold today might come without a modified fuel pump. Was talking ONLY about what did, or didn't, come with the 1960's era kits. Sorry for any confusion.Z.
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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Bramick
FanatiKal
TX, USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2010 : 09:37:38
Great info guys.I have to stop looking at this thread before I buy a Paxton!
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pprince
FanatiKal
ON, Canada
117 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 09:58:02
I want one too.It might be next winters project. Edited by - pprince on 05/25/2010 09:58:25
---------- Paul 1965 2+2 www.prince-cva.ca
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 07:54:38
Together with my supercharger I have also bought 4 extra instruments.I see that most people have this mounted under the dash, but this would cause some problems for me as I have a full length console. Any suggestion on where to mount it? I was thinking about the console lid. Also can anyone point out if it is a good idea to connect all instruments to the middle pin of the ignition switch?
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 15:29:00
the console door might work nice. I would remove it and fabricate a plate to mount the gauges in. There are plenty of hot wires to choose from. I think I tapped into a wiper wire for the instrament lights. An inline fuse adds some safety.what gauges (type, manufacturer, vendor) did you buy? Z.
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 15:47:39
Yes I landed on the same conclusion that the door would be the nicest location. Im not sure if Im gonna make a wooden plate and try to get the same finish as the rest of the console or make something in steel.I ended up with Autometer gauges. Wide ratio Air/Fuel, boost/vac, fuel pressure and oil pressure. Edited by - toffe on 06/07/2010 15:48:46
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 07:26:58
I do like the idea of having all the gauges by the same manufacturer so they match. But I couldn't find an Autometer boost only gauge in the 0 to 15 lb. range. Needle movement won't be that significant on the 0 to 30 dials. And vac/boost gauges will never be reading vac when (correctly) installed on the pressure side of the Paxton. this is the only one I found with a 0 to 15 dial when I was looking a while back: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SWW-114500/?rtype=10 and a matching fuel pressure gauge (but no isolator included, a must that has to purchased separately): http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SWW-114373/?rtype=10 but Stewart Warner doesn't have the reputation that Autometer has, tough call... I have heard some gauge manufactures will re-calibrate a gauge to fit an individual application, but haven't tested this theory. Z. Edited by - zrayrichter on 06/08/2010 08:10:10
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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289kford
RidiKulous
OH, USA
254 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 10:44:08
quote:
the console door might work nice. I would remove it and fabricate a plate to mount the gauges in.
How about a re-working a reproduction door, about $50?
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 17:25:33
I spent a good number of hours on the Internet to find some matching instruments. I know the Vac/boost gauge has a too high scale to get an accurate reading. This was mostly meant to be an indication on when there is any boost at all. All my instruments are analog and electronic not mechanical, so I don't need an isolator. Where do you recommend me to place the MAP sensor for the boost/vac gauge? I have considered to start drilling in the existing door, I'm just not sure how it will look. Ill try to see what alternatives I have and go for the existing door if the alternatives does not look good at all.
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 19:44:07
quote:
I spent a good number of hours on the Internet to find some matching instruments. I know the Vac/boost gauge has a too high scale to get an accurate reading. This was mostly meant to be an indication on when there is any boost at all.
I made the same search myself, with similar results. I would consider placing the gauge so the 5 psi is at the 12:00 o'clock position. That way a quick glance just before you shift (redline) will tell you if you are at or near maximum boost, i.e. the needle should be pointing straight up.quote: Where do you recommend me to place the MAP sensor for the boost/vac gauge?
put a T fitting in the hose that goes from the supercharger to the fuel pump. Run a hose from the T to your MAP sensor, which you can mount where the washer pump or washer bag used to be. quote:
I have considered to start drilling in the existing door, I'm just not sure how it will look. Ill try to see what alternatives I have and go for the existing door if the alternatives does not look good at all.
if you don't want to outlay the cash for a repro door, then I'd suggest a steel or aluminum plate. Have a machine shop cut out the holes for the gauges & then paint it black. Cutting up an original door may be regrettable down the road. Z. Ray
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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SixT5HiPo
Enforcer!
PA, USA
4994 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 23:31:26
quote:
...I'd suggest a steel or aluminum plate. Have a machine shop cut out the holes for the gauges & then paint it black. Cutting up an original door may be regrettable down the road.
You got that right!
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 17:28:12
I have finally got the SC installed and my first impression is that it runs great, much more responsive and a lot better acceleration.I have a couple of questions. My AFR is 13.5 at idle, but around 11 when cruising, is this normal? My oil pressure is appx 50 psi and the fuel pressure is appx 9, is this ok? The kick down has stopped working. I assume this has something to do about the pressure. Any suggestions?
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zrayrichter
LunatiK
TX, USA
547 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 21:37:39
quote:
I have finally got the SC installed and my first impression is that it runs great, much more responsive and a lot better acceleration.I have a couple of questions. My AFR is 13.5 at idle, but around 11 when cruising, is this normal? My oil pressure is appx 50 psi and the fuel pressure is appx 9, is this ok? The kick down has stopped working. I assume this has something to do about the pressure. Any suggestions?
in reverse order..... 1) I don't think there is an "easy way" to hook up kick down linkage to a vintage Paxton. Most carbs used for these applications don't have kick down linkage. I suppose if your carb does have kick down linkage, then you would only have to drill a hole in the enclosure for the cable. 2) oil pressure sounds OK, the fuel pressure should vary with the boost pressure. It should be 5 to 6 without boost, then cli.mb to 11 or 12 when the boost is 5 or 6 psi. 3) The idle a/f ratio is OK imho. But the cruising a/f ratio is too rich. What is your current jetting ? Z.
----------  '66 GT-350 Original Drivetrain, Sheet-Metal, Interior, & Paint
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 05:54:51
Hi Ray, thanks for taking time to help here!First of all, checked the fuel pressure now and its 8 at idle and appx 11 at full boost, so this sounds correct. On the kickdown, this cable goes from the intake to the gearbox. Do you mean it wil help to take the pressure from the carb? Not sure about the jetting. The carb was delivered by Craig and set up properly on his engine, but altitude and engine spcs may vary. How much lower do you reccomend to go down on the jetting?
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toffe
OKKupied
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 16:29:18
Checked now and the markings on the top of the jets reads "45R-1" Is this the size?
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