Thermostat Recommendation

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Thermostat Recommendation

Postby Bill G » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:43 am

Hey guys, my kar's temperature has been going hot lately. Gauge is moving to the 3/4 to 7/8 mark after driving for about 20 minutes and staying there. I changed the sender to test that, but no change in temp. I now suspect my thermostat may be stuck open. Just wondering, what temperature thermostat is best for a substantially stock HIPO ? Thanks so much.

Bill in Ohio
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby Bill G » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:53 am

Whoops - I meant thermostat stuck CLOSED. Also, if there is a particular brand of thermostat you think is particularly reliable. Thanks.

Bill in Ohio
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby C6ZZKGT » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:41 am

Bill, I will take it that your gauge normally ran much lower? Keep in mind that the gauge in these cars is only a relative measurement and varies a bit between cars due to its function. That said, it does sound like your Kar is running hot although I would recommend verifying the actual temperature. I use an infra red thermometer where you just point and shoot. If you do not have one, most auto shops worth their salt will have one and a friendly one should be happy to take 30 seconds to check your engines temperature.

In regards to a proper thermostat, if you want your heater to work in the Winter, a 180 degree version will be necessary as a 160 degree version will be too cold. Thermostats are generally a lot more dependable than people give them credit for and they are either working or they are not. If your temperature is rising more than normal and stays there, it is likely NOT the thermostat. Our Mustangs are known for plugging the radiators with particles of rust that are sometimes of substantial size. Remove your radiator cap when the engine is cold and look at the cores in the radiator to see how many are plugged up. Typically you will be able to see 10 or more cores and based on how many of those are plugged you can figure a percentage of cores plugged for the rest of the radiator. I have had ones that plugged up in 30 minutes after flushing out the radiator. I was taking the radiator out and turning it upside down to flush it out. If plugging is your issue, we can discuss a solution in another post.

-Fred-
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby zray » Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:45 pm

These cars left the Ford factory with a 192 or 195 degree thermostat. They are that high for a good reason. Your engine needs to be in the 190 degree range, or higher, to be running as efficiently as it can. Putting in a 180 or even worse a 160 is just giving away horsepower, and in the case of a 160, promoting rapid engine wear.

Stant makes a premium brand of thermostat that most parts stores don't carry. You can get them direct from Stant or from summit.com

http://www.stant.com/index.php/english/ ... hermostat/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/snn-45359/overview/

To the OP: Don't change anything without getting a true temp reading from a dependable temp gauge. Autometer gauges are pretty good.

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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby Bill G » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:23 pm

Hey Z and Fred, thanks for your excellent info. As you suggested I did look at the cores in the area of the cap. Yes, many looked plugged or had some crud around the opening. It looks like the radiator needs to be cleaned out. But I will also have the engine temperature read first to see where it is. The one thing I've noticed is even though the temp gauge is reading quite high, I 'm getting no fluid boiling out of the overflow tube.

Also, thanks for the tip on the Stant thermostat. If I'm going to put one in, I'd rather it be a good one.

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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby C6ZZKGT » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:16 pm

Bill, I do not know if you are showing your Kar or if it is just a driver. Either way I use a Gano filter in the upper radiator hose to help keep the radiator from getting plugged. They make a nice brass one that fits inside of the upper radiator hose. I cut my hose, install the filter, place two clamps to hold it in place with the hose shoved back together. The end result to anyone looking under the hood is that you have two clamps side by side in the middle of the hose. If you are showing your Kar, just get another hose to use for this modification and save your FoMoCo hose in the trunk. When it comes time to show your Kar, just trade out the hoses. The Gano filter is easy to clean as it is basically a screen and when your Kar starts getting hot again, just clean the filter rather than the radiator. If you still have a lot of rust chunks in your block and heads, you will be doing this fairly often to begin with.

-Fred-
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby zray » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:15 am

I've used a filter thats functionally similar to the one Fred mentions. It's called a Tefba filter. It's not as invisible as the Gano filter, but easier to clean out. It's amazing how much iron grit these blocks will "shed", even when they are fresh from an overhaul. Certainly enough to impact the cooling ability of any radiator. Regardless of which one you prefer, it is a valuable accessory that has been a substantial benefit to the cooling system.

http://www.tefba.com


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Last edited by zray on Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby SixT5HiPo » Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:35 pm

zray wrote:I've used a filter thats functionally similar to the one Fred mentions...

Z


Good stuff. Whoever figured out how to make a filter for the cooling system borders on genius.
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby sg66gt » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:44 pm

To the OP, not sure what "crud" you are referring to without pictures but there some options. As others have already stated, you could have iron but don't write off solder bloom or calcium deposits from using tap water rather than distilled water.
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby evantugby » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:46 am

C6ZZKGT wrote:Bill, I will take it that your gauge normally ran much lower? Keep in mind that the gauge in these cars is only a relative measurement and varies a bit between cars due to its function. That said, it does sound like your Kar is running hot although I would recommend verifying the actual temperature. I use an infra red thermometer where you just point and shoot. If you do not have one, most auto shops worth their salt will have one and a friendly one should be happy to take 30 seconds to check your engines temperature.

In regards to a proper thermostat, if you want your heater to work in the Winter, a 180 degree version will be necessary as a 160 degree version will be too cold. Thermostats are generally a lot more dependable than people give them credit for and they are either working or they are not. If your temperature is rising more than normal and stays there, it is likely NOT the thermostat. Our Mustangs are known for plugging the radiators with particles of rust that are sometimes of substantial size. Remove your radiator cap when the engine is cold and look at the cores in the radiator to see how many are plugged up. Typically you will be able to see 10 or more cores and based on how many of those are plugged you can figure a percentage of cores plugged for the rest of the radiator. I have had ones that plugged up in 30 minutes after flushing out the radiator. I was taking the radiator out and turning it upside down to flush it out. If plugging is your issue, we can discuss a solution in another post.

-Fred-


Fred,
Zray mentioned the HiPo's left the factory with a 190 or 195 degree thermostat, however, you mention if you want your heater to work in the winter a 180 degree version is necessary. Question 1: So which thermostat is correct for my 1966 kar? I'm confused because didn't most HiPo kar's come with heaters, thus also coming with 180 degree thermostats, making Zray's comment inaccurate?
Currently: 1966 Ford Mustang Fastback, K-code, HiPo, GT-350 Clone, Signal flare Red, black interior
Formerly: 1965 Ford Mustang Coupe, A-code, Wimbledon White, red interior
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby zray » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:31 pm

I think you are too literally, and also misinterpreting, Fred's meaning. Fred, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Fred means you can't have a thermostat any LOWER than a 180 to have a working heater. I've never seen a 289 , C or A or K that came from the factory with a 160 or 180 thermostat. Most of the 289's I worked on were from the USA southwest. If Ford was sending out cars with colder thermostats, I think that's where they would've done so.

I didn't look at every 289 HiPo that Ford made, but I've never seen any 289 with the original thermostat that had anything other than a 190, 192 or a 195 thermostat in it. All of those were essentially the same thing.

MotorCraft made replacements in every temperature range.

But my previous post stands; you don't need to ever put any thermostat in a car lower than the factory spec to get it to run at the most effective temperature. If you look in your shop manual (you do have one, right ???) you will see that the stock 195 thermostat doesn't even fully open until 210 to 212 degrees F. There's several very good reasons why the Ford engineers want your engine to always be between 195 and 220. Any less than that and you're just shooting yourself in the foot on several levels. If someone wants to learn about ideal internal combustion engine coolant temperatures for CAST IRON engines, there is no shortage of reference material on the subject, although a student eager to learn might have to actually go to a library and forget about education via google.

People that use 160's or 180's in an attempt to solve an overheating issue just don't understand how an engine cooling system works. IF they did, they fix it the underlying applying instead of applying useless bandaids.

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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby evantugby » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:56 pm

Zray,
Thanks for the reply. Well if K-codes did in fact use a 195 then that is what I want to use. I have a 180 currently but will gladly buy the correct one.
Thanks for the help Zray!
Currently: 1966 Ford Mustang Fastback, K-code, HiPo, GT-350 Clone, Signal flare Red, black interior
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby zray » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:26 pm

evantugby wrote:Zray,
Thanks for the reply. Well if K-codes did in fact use a 195 then that is what I want to use. I have a 180 currently but will gladly buy the correct one.
Thanks for the help Zray!



you will want to sure the rest of the cooling system is also up to par. Having the radiator boiled out by a knowledgeable radiator shop would be a good start.

IIRC, you are overhauling / restoring your motor. When I had my GT350 engine overhauled, I made sure the machine shop hot tanked the block and cleaned it throughly. One would think this would be all that is needed to ensure the radiator would be kept clean. But I was obsessive enough to also install a radiator filter, the Tefba. And after seeing what it caught I'm so glad I did. That "clean" block kept shedding iron grit for well over a year until it slowed down and stabilized. All told, the filter caught over 1/2 of a cup of iron particles and powder over a two year period. If I had not installed the cooling system filter, my radiator would certainly have been compromised in its ability to function as designed.

If you are showing your car, it's easy to pull the top hose where the filter is positioned, and put on a stock hose. Well worth the trouble.

Best of luck with your project. I know you are putting a lot of effort into making it right.

Z
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby evantugby » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:02 pm

Zray,
That's a great recommendation. I'll look one up. You can check out the pictures here of the engine here if you'd like to see pictures:

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/build ... ion-5.html
Currently: 1966 Ford Mustang Fastback, K-code, HiPo, GT-350 Clone, Signal flare Red, black interior
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby C6ZZKGT » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:39 am

zray wrote:
evantugby wrote:Zray,
Thanks for the reply. Well if K-codes did in fact use a 195 then that is what I want to use. I have a 180 currently but will gladly buy the correct one.
Thanks for the help Zray!



you will want to sure the rest of the cooling system is also up to par. Having the radiator boiled out by a knowledgeable radiator shop would be a good start.

IIRC, you are overhauling / restoring your motor. When I had my GT350 engine overhauled, I made sure the machine shop hot tanked the block and cleaned it throughly. One would think this would be all that is needed to ensure the radiator would be kept clean. But I was obsessive enough to also install a radiator filter, the Tefba. And after seeing what it caught I'm so glad I did. That "clean" block kept shedding iron grit for well over a year until it slowed down and stabilized. All told, the filter caught over 1/2 of a cup of iron particles and powder over a two year period. If I had not installed the cooling system filter, my radiator would certainly have been compromised in its ability to function as designed.

If you are showing your car, it's easy to pull the top hose where the filter is positioned, and put on a stock hose. Well worth the trouble.

Best of luck with your project. I know you are putting a lot of effort into making it right.

Z


The Tefba filter is a new one for me although I am sure that it is effective. I have been using Gano filters for many years now. They do have clear ones but they tend to not age well as they get crazing of the clear plastic housing. To me this is a precursor to a probable failure of the plastic. I have gone to the brass or aluminum version as I have full confidence in it. I cut the upper radiator hose and install it totally within the hose. All that shows from the outside is the two extra clamps holding the hose to the filter on both ends. Here is a link to the Gano filter:

http://www.ganofilters.com/

-Fred-
66 K GT Fastback Silver Frost / Black Pony Interior
66 K GT Fastback Signal Flare Red / Black Pony Interior
65 K Coupe Phoenician Yellow / Black Standard Interior
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby zray » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:36 pm

I saw on the VMF that someone is making a metal version of the Tefba filter. Although the plastic version I had showed no signs of wearing or cracks after over 12 years / 100,000 + miles on two different cars, I'd probably go for the metal one if I was in the market today.

The main positive feature that the Tefba has vs. the Gano filter is that you can clean out the trap very easily with the Tefba. AFAIK, the Gano filter requires you to take of the top hose, at least partially.


PS the aluminum Tefba look-a-like is made or sold by AeroFlow (under license probably)
https://www.aeroflowperformance.com/af64-2043

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vinta ... ost9449969

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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby C6ZZKGT » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:11 am

zray wrote:I saw on the VMF that someone is making a metal version of the Tefba filter. Although the plastic version I had showed no signs of wearing or cracks after over 12 years / 100,000 + miles on two different cars, I'd probably go for the metal one if I was in the market today.

The main positive feature that the Tefba has vs. the Gano filter is that you can clean out the trap very easily with the Tefba. AFAIK, the Gano filter requires you to take of the top hose, at least partially.


PS the aluminum Tefba look-a-like is made or sold by AeroFlow (under license probably)
https://www.aeroflowperformance.com/af64-2043

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vinta ... ost9449969

Z


At this time, I will probably stick with my Gano filters as they really do not stand out that much with just the two hose clamps in the middle of the upper hose. I find it really easy to access for cleaning.

-Fred-
66 K GT Fastback Silver Frost / Black Pony Interior
66 K GT Fastback Signal Flare Red / Black Pony Interior
65 K Coupe Phoenician Yellow / Black Standard Interior
65 A Code 4 speed Ranchero
64 289 4 Speed Falcon Sedan Delivery
66 Corvette 427 Roadster
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Re: Thermostat Recommendation

Postby zray » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:28 pm

Just pointing out all the choices one has.

The most important thing is, just use pick one and use it. Keeping a car running at the right temperature is a straightforward process if the the basic precautions are observed.

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