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5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:39 pm
by SixT5HiPo
THIS project fastback is for sale by eBay member " tracksideclassiccarsandparts ".

"Up for bid is a 1965 Mustang Fastback K code Hi-Po 289 4-speed 9"rear end and 8K Rally-Pac. All original drive line engine, transmission and rear end. This is the car everyone is looking for its a true K-code with 73,263 original miles on the car and it still turns over after being in storage for more than 35 years. The car will need a full restoration front clip is good and solid floors need work trunk area has rust and the drivers side rear frame rail is rusted up thru the trunk floor and you can see the rest. Don't miss this rare find. Been in the same family since new.
This car restored will be worth over $80,000

5F09K731804

body 63A = 2+2 fastback standard interior
color J = Rangoon Red
trim D5 = White Crinkle Vinyl with Red Appointments, standard interior
date 18S = May 18th 1965
DSO 34 = Indianapolis
axle 5 = 3.50:1 conventional
trans 5 = 4-speed

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:54 pm
by evantugby
I spoke to the owner. Several discrepancies to note with the vin number on the Block and apron

1. Block: Block contains stamped 5F09K731XXX. The last three digits are stamped out and 804 are directly above the XXX. Have any of you seen this before?
2. Fender Apron: Driver side vin slopes down and is missing the * before and after vin. The hidden passenger fender vin is also missing the * before and after
3. The transmission is an HEH-T Non-HiPo transmission.

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:42 pm
by C6ZZKGT
evantugby wrote:I spoke to the owner. Several discrepancies to note with the vin number on the Block and apron

1. Block: Block contains stamped 5F09K731XXX. The last three digits are stamped out and 804 are directly above the XXX. Have any of you seen this before?
2. Fender Apron: Driver side vin slopes down and is missing the * before and after vin. The hidden passenger fender vin is also missing the * before and after
3. The transmission is an HEH-T Non-HiPo transmission.


1. I have seen the fender apron VIN X'd out before by Ford before restamping the proper VIN. Extremely rare but does happen. I have not seen it on a block but that certainly could have happened.

2. I have no reasonable explanation for the crappy VIN stamp on the drivers apron. However it is very possible that the apron was damaged in a collision and it was replaced. If so, it is probable that somebody made a poor attempt to recreate the VIN. If there is a star before and after the VIN, the picture is not of a wide enough angle to see them. Where do you see a picture of the hidden passenger side VIN?

3. The HEH-T transmission IS for a Hipo however the seller thinks that it is wrong because of the bogus information on the 8/20/64 to 10/1/64 usage dates, These have been proven to be in error even though they are listed in the Ford MPC that way. We have had many examples of the HEH-T transmission as late as May of 1965 with the proper VIN stamp for the original Kar.

The VIN on the door tag does not match either VIN.

Why does it have a 5 dial instrument cluster if it is not a GT or luxury décor group (pony interior) Kar?

-Fred-

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:12 pm
by evantugby
C6ZZKGT wrote:
evantugby wrote:I spoke to the owner. Several discrepancies to note with the vin number on the Block and apron

1. Block: Block contains stamped 5F09K731XXX. The last three digits are stamped out and 804 are directly above the XXX. Have any of you seen this before?
2. Fender Apron: Driver side vin slopes down and is missing the * before and after vin. The hidden passenger fender vin is also missing the * before and after
3. The transmission is an HEH-T Non-HiPo transmission.


1. I have seen the fender apron VIN X'd out before by Ford before restamping the proper VIN. Extremely rare but does happen. I have not seen it on a block but that certainly could have happened.

2. I have no reasonable explanation for the crappy VIN stamp on the drivers apron. However it is very possible that the apron was damaged in a collision and it was replaced. If so, it is probable that somebody made a poor attempt to recreate the VIN. If there is a star before and after the VIN, the picture is not of a wide enough angle to see them. Where do you see a picture of the hidden passenger side VIN?

3. The HEH-T transmission IS for a Hipo however the seller thinks that it is wrong because of the bogus information on the 8/20/64 to 10/1/64 usage dates, These have been proven to be in error even though they are listed in the Ford MPC that way. We have had many examples of the HEH-T transmission as late as May of 1965 with the proper VIN stamp for the original Kar.

The VIN on the door tag does not match either VIN.

Why does it have a 5 dial instrument cluster if it is not a GT or luxury décor group (pony interior) Kar?

-Fred-


Hi Fred,
I've talked extensively with the owner tonight. I had him pull off both fenders to look at each hidden vin and they all match (he sent pictures) however none of the vins have a "star" before or after the vin.

The 5 dial instrument cluster was changed by the original owner in 1966 when the new mustangs came out. The current owner (second owner) was told by the first owner he switched out the instrument bezel because he thought it looked better.

As for the HEH-T transmission, that is great news to hear it IS a HIPO. I was using David Kee Toploader website which does NOT indicate HEH-T came out of a HiPo. I will be sure to let the owner know! He will appreciate that!

The VIN on the door tag DOES match the apron vins. I talked to the owner specifically about this because I too thought it didn't match but its just a bad picture. The owner actually went out to the car and read off the vin verbatim from the door tag and it matches the apron.

I have the owner doing a search for the build sheet. He is also in contact with the family of the first owner (first owner is recently deceased) to obtain any original paperwork on the car.

Evan

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:15 pm
by C6ZZKGT
evantugby wrote:
C6ZZKGT wrote:
evantugby wrote:I spoke to the owner. Several discrepancies to note with the vin number on the Block and apron

1. Block: Block contains stamped 5F09K731XXX. The last three digits are stamped out and 804 are directly above the XXX. Have any of you seen this before?
2. Fender Apron: Driver side vin slopes down and is missing the * before and after vin. The hidden passenger fender vin is also missing the * before and after
3. The transmission is an HEH-T Non-HiPo transmission.


1. I have seen the fender apron VIN X'd out before by Ford before restamping the proper VIN. Extremely rare but does happen. I have not seen it on a block but that certainly could have happened.

2. I have no reasonable explanation for the crappy VIN stamp on the drivers apron. However it is very possible that the apron was damaged in a collision and it was replaced. If so, it is probable that somebody made a poor attempt to recreate the VIN. If there is a star before and after the VIN, the picture is not of a wide enough angle to see them. Where do you see a picture of the hidden passenger side VIN?

3. The HEH-T transmission IS for a Hipo however the seller thinks that it is wrong because of the bogus information on the 8/20/64 to 10/1/64 usage dates, These have been proven to be in error even though they are listed in the Ford MPC that way. We have had many examples of the HEH-T transmission as late as May of 1965 with the proper VIN stamp for the original Kar.

The VIN on the door tag does not match either VIN.

Why does it have a 5 dial instrument cluster if it is not a GT or luxury décor group (pony interior) Kar?

-Fred-


Hi Fred,
I've talked extensively with the owner tonight. I had him pull off both fenders to look at each hidden vin and they all match (he sent pictures) however none of the vins have a "star" before or after the vin.

The 5 dial instrument cluster was changed by the original owner in 1966 when the new mustangs came out. The current owner (second owner) was told by the first owner he switched out the instrument bezel because he thought it looked better.

As for the HEH-T transmission, that is great news to hear it IS a HIPO. I was using David Kee Toploader website which does NOT indicate HEH-T came out of a HiPo. I will be sure to let the owner know! He will appreciate that!

The VIN on the door tag DOES match the apron vins. I talked to the owner specifically about this because I too thought it didn't match but its just a bad picture. The owner actually went out to the car and read off the vin verbatim from the door tag and it matches the apron.

I have the owner doing a search for the build sheet. He is also in contact with the family of the first owner (first owner is recently deceased) to obtain any original paperwork on the car.

Evan


I commend you for your efforts on this Kar, Evan.

Something is definitely odd if even the hidden numbers do not have stars. Can you please send me the pictures to my email that you have and I will investigate them further.

-Fred-

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:04 am
by evantugby
Fred,
I sent you those photos of the hidden apron vin on the passenger side and a better picture of the visible vin on the driver's apron. We did talk on the phone and you informed me of some font discrepancies with the vin stamps. For the record, could you record the issues you found with these vins here please?

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:44 am
by C6ZZKGT
evantugby wrote:Fred,
I sent you those photos of the hidden apron vin on the passenger side and a better picture of the visible vin on the driver's apron. We did talk on the phone and you informed me of some font discrepancies with the vin stamps. For the record, could you record the issues you found with these vins here please?


My thoughts are that this Kar absolutely needs a prepurchase inspection. Being as this Kar has been in the same family since new, someone in the family must know what has happened here. The seller does seem to be honestly representing the Kar with what information they have and have gone out of their way to expose the hidden numbers and take pictures for Evan. Whatever was done on this Kar was a long time ago based on the rust pits on the aprons.

The questionable alignment of the VIN digits is obvious and the lack of stars on either the exposed or hidden VIN stamps does not help. Then there is the zeros in the VIN where one is oval as a zero would be and the other is round like the letter O would be. The number one has the serif on the top but not the lower horizontal line making an obvious difference in the font.

I have my theories on what has happened with this Kar but without a proper inspection I am unwilling to present them here.

-Fred-

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:43 pm
by silverblue65
Reserve met at 15k with 3 1/2 hours left in auction. Seeing the extent of the rust; spring mount has come up thru the trunk floor, gotta believe there's similar rot throughout the car, floor, frame rails, rocker panel, cowl ?

Will be interesting to see how much someone throws at this Kar...add to the rust issues the questionable VIN stamps on the fenders & block and I'd be even more hesitant to buy. Its not a car someone will pay top dollar for after its completely restored- the VIN stamps will scare them away. With what needs to be spent on it there's a good chance someone ends up upside down on this hipo.

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:17 pm
by SixT5HiPo
Exactly right...it's interesting that the reserve was met with a single bid that was thousands higher than the next highest bid which did not meet the reserve. This auction is scary to say the least. Making it a "private" bid auction is a nice touch.

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:04 pm
by SixT5HiPo
SOLD for an amazing $15,600.00 with 21 secret bids.

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:24 pm
by 6R09K
Time to order a bunch of poor quality aftermarket sheetmetal and make it an off-shore Mustang. It appears someone has walked on the roof, not one good body panel there.

Re: 5F09K731804 Project

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:22 am
by SixT5HiPo
6R09K wrote:Time to order a bunch of poor quality aftermarket sheetmetal and make it an off-shore Mustang. It appears someone has walked on the roof, not one good body panel there.


Ain't that the truth...